Another C6?

[John Harmon]

Morning, a little about me, almost 78, playing non-pedal for a few years and little to no music theory. Now I've often heard C6 is the most versatile tuning of all, can someone tell why? It's close to most 6 tunings and I just wonder what makes it "better". I have tuned my A6 neck to C6 to go through Mike's lessons but at my age would you try to learn a new tuning? Thanks for your help as always, John

[Mike Neer]

John, I can only speak to my preferences, but the reason I regard C6 as the "better" choice is more about the timbre of the strings, particularly with regard to pitches. I find that having a plain steel A string in C6th (which is the 6th) and a wound G (the 5th) together have a brighter and more useful timbre for playing melodies and voice leading with harmonies. That is purely subjective, as many others choose A6.

Another important reason for me is being able to have 6ths available with the E string (the E and G strings together, like on standard guitar tuning). This is the one of the subjects of my latest episode of A Different Slant, "6th Sense."

If you are vexed by C6, try this: remove the E string (1st string) from your A6 neck--you will now have essentially the same tuning as C6, just 3 semitones lower. What I prefer is to have the 3rd of the tuning on top so I can add the 5th of the tuning to the bottom of an 8-string. It is extremely rich for chordal work and allows me to get some root position major triads and dominant chords with slanting (I can get an A major triad the same as in A6 tuning open strings 6-5-4)

[Michael Kiese]

Aloha John,

Bottom line up front: C6 and A6 are the same tuning, just 3 frets apart. The EASIEST and most PRAGMATIC course of action for you is to get two 8 string lap steels, and string one up in A6 and the other in C6. They'll play exactly the same way, but together, they put all the common key signatures in all the most comfortable postions (5th fret, 7th fret, and 12th fret).

If you want to stick with only ONE steel guitar and it's a 6 string, you can go between C6, A6, and B11 with ease without messing up string tension. There's a lifetime of joy and happiness playing steel with a 6 string steel and going between C6, A6, and B11. It's a bit of a challenge, but very doable and enjoyable.

Bobby Ingano is a good friend and mentor of mine. He plays EVERYTHING with on C6 with a high G using a 7 string steel, which yields the same layout as a 6 string A6. He can even play Sand (a well known tune in B11) on C6 with a high G (which plays exactly like six string A6). Bobby has tried many other tunings, and he keeps to C6 for 95% of what he plays. Sometimes he'll play in B11 for specific tunes. But he's such a pragmatist and he just figured out how to do everything he needs to on C6.

So it's really up to you.

I personally deeply believe C6 should be treated as a universal tuning for steel guitar. Everything you need is on it, and you don't have to jump around to get all the most important chords you'd need.

Whatever you do, I DO NOT recommend messing around with E9, E13, A7, D9, etc. Those tunings are rabbit holes, explore them at your own risk. lol. After studying Jerry Byrds transcriptions, all of his alternate tunings had elements of C6 in them, and he primarily kept to those C6 like strings and only utilized the changed strings in one or two small sections of each song. They just gave him a nice chord cadence or chord voicing for one little part of the song. So those dominant tunings are pretty limiting in my opinion. The trade off is not worth it.

I'm sure people will disagree, but those alternate tunings are more hassle than they are worth. They're rabbit holes worth exploring if you have the time and inclination. But you'll be performing music much quicker if you just stick to C6 or A6.

You can get everything you need on C6. Bobby Ingano is proof of that.

Whatever path you choose to go, all that matters is that you enjoy it.

Enjoy!

[John Harmon]

Thanks guys I appreciate the answers, seems like personal preference is the key. I'm glad to find that out. Now back to my lessons. John

[D Schubert]

Seems that I remember reading that some six- and eight-string players would choose Bb6 tuning (rather than A6 or C6) for their particular band situation, particularly if they played in a lot of "horn" keys.

[J D Sauser]

C6th or A6th is all the same, except for timbre. It's all about which string gauge is on which note... and mostly what ends up being on top as a note and gauge.
Jerry Byrd suggested not to go above E on top. He was so obsessed (and I share his obsession) with the uniformity of his top 3 strings, that he chose to used the same string gauge (o.o18p) on A, C and E on his early 22" scale lap steels.
Evidently that provided for a very loose A and a very tight E.
I use o.o17 on my top E on my 24" PSGs... with the same goal, the change in mass (cross section) is more than what most would believe from a o.o14 to an o.o17!! And so is it's timbre.
But with that, I can't possibly carry a 5th (G in C6th) on top... it would be too thin or pop with "matching" heavy gauge.
But my pedal setup allows me to raise my C's half and drop my middle G half, which on C6th being Am7 raises A's minor 3rd to Major and lower it's b7th to 6th... and then E is my 5th on top, and I can do that ever so important "Hank Thompson" I to I7th like going 2 frets down (to the "Two Below" as Jeff Newman would have called it) with that quick 5th on top of the lick out of that position. (Back then C6th players tended to have a high G on top, the D had not yet taken it's spot, so both, A6th and C6th player could play that like alike).

Maurice took that research a step further going "in between" the two concepts to Bb6th. That allowed him to have not just the 5th but a 6th on top with a high G... so, he had a whole step interval in the upper registers before C6th's D came up.
While most mistake his tuning as some lower version of a C6th, Maurice was often heard to Jazz-solo on very high pitched sounds akin only to E9th... By the way, Maurices Bb6th bottomed out a C just like the C on most C6ths... being an analogue to having a D on the bottom of C6th (which quite a few C6th players had and can also be found on Maurice's S12 non-pedal C6th). Maurice kept his 5th (high G) but couldn't have a 6th (high A) so he put two "inside-out" stings on top reflecting "P7" (evidently including the common D on top)

Likewise B11th covers an A6th base with a II7thth on top... with a high E.


Interestingly when you look at the third breed of players, those which played E13th, their concept is totally different.
Listen to "Zane Beck meets Bobby Caldwel"l and you hear a thinner higher pitch "Swing", totally different distribution of Degrees on string gauges. Speedy West's F#9th also in essence was an E13th tuning just with a reverse P5 engaged. He had a pedal to set it back into E13th. This was done because of mechanical limitations which did not allow for lowers. His too, sounded much higher pitched than C6th or A6th... I don't know for sure if he had the high G# on top on his 8-string tunings but he definitely did on his later 10-string guitars. A great many Hillbilly Swing players played E13th at least on one of their guitar's necks.


ALL that being said. Any 6th tuning, especially one with a IV like F to C in the bass has 4 main playing positions (2 Major, an 2 which are their relative minors). In other words, even without pedals on a C6th one can find positions where the high 5th or even high 6th are present. Some of these positions may be minor but we got a bar which can be moved around. Evidently, those degrees will now not only be affected in timbre by the string gauge but also length of shortness of the vibrating section of the string left depending on which fret they are played,

So, the question really boils down to:
1- Which is the thinnest gauge string do you want to have strung on your guitar's neck?
o.o14 to o.18 (E) or o.o11 to o.13 (G# on E tunings or G on C or Bb or A tunings)
2- Which Degrees do you want to have on top: the 3rd, the 5th or even the 6th.

Et voilá! The mix of that will give you YOUR choice of tuning.
I know, that sounds cold and mechanical... but that's the reasoning behind all these tunings.

And then, came Jerry Byrd and played a great many of tunes on 2 totally different tunings, note for note, almost indiscernibly. And really, a pedaled C6th is not much more than a whole bunch of "tunings" in one... even just open, BE C6th is C, Am, F, Dm

... J-D.